Pete Lewis:
Welcome to Co-operative Conversations, the livestream series, where we connect you to the real stories of Australian primary producers who are working and growing together in co-operatives, throughout all the trials and tribulations that that involves.
Pete Lewis:
It’s been a tough few years obviously, for agriculture highlighting the importance of our Australian farmers, fishers and foresters, not only to the country, but to the national economy.
Pete Lewis:
Hi, I’m Pete Lewis and one way or another, I’ve been helping farmers tell the great stories of food and fibre in this country for the past 25 years. Before we get underway, though, I want to mention the poll that we’re running in conjunction with today’s event. And tonight’s poll question is what is the biggest motivator to starting a farming co-operative? There’s a bunch of different options you can pick, from increasing yields and maximising returns, to adding value and group marketing. Click on the poll in the live chat to the right of your screen and select your answer.
Pete Lewis:
Now we’re joined by a fisher and leader of one of the most innovative co-operatives in the country. The Limestone Coast Fishermen’s Co-op is locally owned and operated by 29 fishing families in South Australia. Just two years old, it started out of necessity and has grown to become a very important part of its local community. Rodger Long is the chairman and he has a pretty interesting backstory about how he got into all this.
Pete Lewis:
Rodger, you’re a first generation fisher and you virtually fell into this on a footy field.
Rodger Long:
Yeah, that’s right Peter. I was a bit fortunate, I suppose. It really changed my life. I moved down to a small country town football side and very close to a couple of fishing ports. And I was lucky enough to land a job on a boat. The skipper of that boat helped me out immensely with experience in all types of stuff to do with the industry. And along the way I bought a few pots to, I suppose, increase my pay packet. And I fished with him for a couple of years and then was offered another job on another boat by a very large fishing family down here who I owe a lot too. And I bought some more pots and went fishing with that family for a few more years until I was able to reach in to the industry and get myself into position where I could buy a few more pots and get my own license.
Rodger Long:
So owe a lot to football and them two families that took me on, I suppose. A big change from coming out of the city into a country town and having that opportunity to go fishing. Yeah.
Pete Lewis:
Now I understand your family lost their property during the Ash Wednesday bush fires. Tell us a little bit about how that affected your outlook and I guess particularly your resilience and your ability to bounce back.
Rodger Long:
Yeah, it was a family business property at a little place called Mount Burr in the pines. My father was a log haulier. That got burned to the ground in Ash Wednesday. Apart from just us obviously there was huge farming devastation and other business devastation around the place. And the impact that had on the region was massive. And to see the way that everybody went around, building it and getting back on their feet was huge, backs to the wall stuff. And yeah, everybody being so resilient just kept plodding away and now you wouldn’t even know it ever happened. And so I suppose there’s still people still hurting from it, but it certainly caused big change, but here we are today sort of thing.
Pete Lewis:
Well, Rodger, having covered those Ash Wednesday bushfires in South Australia, I know exactly what you’re talking about. And I guess last summer must’ve bought back some really vivid memories and experiences for you, as bushfires raged in other parts, very close to where you are, but in other parts of the country, quite severely.
Rodger Long:
Yeah, certainly I suppose, bringing back memories and it helps you understand what them people are going through. There’s nothing good about it and I suppose, except for the regeneration of the natural scrub, but all you can do is hope that they can all come back out of it and get over the travesty that they had. It’s never a good thing, but I’m sure the tough Aussie battler will manage to come out of it and go forward from there.
Pete Lewis:
Well, it’s often said pressure makes diamonds. The co-op that you’re involved in was started by fishermen from across the Limestone Coast, in the southeast of South Australia, taking collaboration, not often seen in the industry because you’re in an industry of, I guess, largely rugged individualists and people who want to go their own way quite literally and need to. Tell us what your co-op does and why did it start?
Rodger Long:
So our co-op is a live exporter of the southern rock lobster. We buy our crays off our membership and some outside crays if they want to sell into us. We gather all our fish and tank them in live holding facilities in the factories where they’ll be packed and exported, mainly to China. There is a bit goes to local market, but mainly China is our major market. How it was established, the southern rock lobster industry was going down a path we thought that was getting taken over by corporate and rationalisation. And we thought, and there was little factory organisation so we were getting squeezed out. A lot of local little businesses doing what we’re doing now, couldn’t keep up with the big players.
Rodger Long:
And we could see that down the track there would be a stage where it was only going to be one or two processors involved in the industry where they could dictate a major price to us. So a few guys got their heads together and there was much talk around the industry, but a few people took it on board and started the ball rolling for that reason, just to see if we could take back some ownership of smaller generational families to hold on and secure their livelihood within the industry.
Pete Lewis:
At the halfway mark of this series, Co-operative Conversations, we’ve noticed that so many co-ops, the one thing they have in common is that they’ve grown out of adversity and some form of crisis within their own industry. How do you think adversity in those tough times have helped strengthen your co-op?
Rodger Long:
Probably not so much adversity, but necessity, I think was something for us and fishermen understood something needed to be done and which made it a lot easier to form. Obviously the COVID deal that’s going on now has seemed to create more interest in what we’re doing to maybe come in under our umbrella with I suppose, the security of numbers together and the open and transparency that we provide to all the fishermen. So I think more so necessity was the reason we got it going, not adversity. And that open and transparency thing is what’s driving it at the moment with this COVID time on.
Pete Lewis:
Now, one of the other universal themes, I think that we’ve certainly discussed over the past few episodes is how so many co-operatives rely on the experience, the expertise and the encouragement of other co-operatives. Now, in your case, it was the the Geraldton Fishermen’s Co-op right on the other side of the country over there in WA. Now you might have thought, since you were both in the same game and shifting the same commodity, that the competition might have ruled over that. How did that cooperation and that partnership and that mentorship, how did that happen?
Rodger Long:
Yeah, well, it’s been massive. So there was a small group of guys that decided, I suppose, to start the ball rolling. And the only way we could see forward was we’d been doing a fair bit of investigation into what the co-op was doing over there and how they were running. So we made contact with the CO then, which was Wayne Hosking. He asked us to come over. It was more than open arm to have us go over there and have a talk about what co-ops are all about and what they’re all about. Obviously they’re a great success.
Rodger Long:
And I must admit the four of us, the first day we went, we went there for two days meetings. And the first day we walked out of there with the daunting thing, looking at the way they were set up and everything. “Oh, how are we ever going to do this?” But the next day at meetings, Wayne threw us a bit of a lifeline of what they might be able to do and how they can help us get established and start and help us down the track. And also working on that principle of collaboration between the co-ops and they’ve been nothing better than fantastic for us. They’ve held out olive branches everywhere, I suppose, to give us a hand and they’re a big part of our story too. Yep.
Pete Lewis:
Well, that’s a great example of co-operation in action I guess, even within the same industry. Now you’ve said that forming the co-op keeps other competitors honest because the money goes back to the fishers. How does this work? What’s the structure of the co-op in that sense?
Rodger Long:
Yeah. So we’re a hundred percent owned by fishermen. There is no outside investment at all. So anything that gets made over and above or profit after running of the factory will be returned to the fishermen. And there’s no outside investment. The money doesn’t go anywhere else. It stays in our local communities. And the structure of the whole setup is we’ve got six fishermen board members, two independents and managers after that, that oversee the whole process. They between them all, have got a huge amount of input into it, but we’re also very well aware that we listen to our members. We’re guided by our members a lot. So it’s a very close knit team and that’s including the members. The members are always about, always talking about things and that’s the way we like it.
Pete Lewis:
Now, you’ve indicated that obviously at start up point, everything seemed a bit daunting. You made the trip to Geraldton and made some linkages there, but in terms of the nuts and bolts of it, how did you go about drawing up your constitution, the rules, the regulations and the important two way relationship between the members, the fishers and the board?
Rodger Long:
So when we come back from Geraldton, well, sorry, Fremantle. We held an open meeting to all fishers along the coast to see who might’ve been interested and to give them the news of what we’d found and discovered while we were away. And we’d got a interest from about 15 guys, straight up from that. And with that in mind, what we did, we got Matt Rutter, Basil Lenzo, and I think it was Brian Key, come across and address that group and let them know what they’d done and to give confidence to these guys that were thinking about becoming members. So after that, it was, I suppose, knuckle down. We had enough numbers to make a start as far as establishing the co-op. And we were lucky enough to get a $5,000 grant from Farming Together.
Rodger Long:
And we employed a lady called Clare Fountain with that, in that process and Clare was fantastic. We’d formed a steering committee to try and keep the ball rolling. She took those half a dozen fishermen and started to educate them on what it was all about to write constitutions and rules and regulations for governance and everything like that. Once again, the GFC were hugely part of that. They shared their constitution and their rules and that with us so we could take out the bits that we thought we needed. And so we run very similar rules to what they do. And also we held a lot of meetings with members that had come on board and we bounced everything off the whole group. So it was very open and a lot of people had input into how we wanted to make it look and the security of the whole system.
Pete Lewis:
So you really got a flying start in that regard. But I guess, did you find it difficult convincing enough fishers to get behind this and give you that critical mass that you really needed to get it up and running?
Rodger Long:
Having the GMC on board with it gave a lot of confidence to a lot of the fishermen that come on board early in the piece. It’s always going to be hard to tell any fishermen, anything. Everybody’s very strong willed and got their own ideas and a lot are stuck in their ways and happy with the way everything’s going. But I suppose we tried to educate what we thought was going to be a good thing and had the Geraldton guys in behind us, focusing on a story to tell all the fishermen of how we want to do it, why we want to do it and we need you guys to be part of it, otherwise it’s just not going to get off the ground. And truly saying that if we can’t do it now, we don’t think anybody who will be able to do it in the future. Now was the time to do it.
Pete Lewis:
And that obviously gave them sufficient confidence that you had the foundations in place to really set sail if you like, and then prove it through practice. They can see that they were going to have a say. They were going to be listened to and that co-operative approach was really in their best interest as well as to the wider co-operative’s interests.
Rodger Long:
Yeah. It’s huge. Clare come across a couple of times. I think she was living in Bendigo at the time and she come across a couple of times and we had working groups where we all met together and she put us through questionnaires and made us write all different stories and scenarios down. And then we’d put them all up on boards and have a look at them. And I think doing it that way gave everybody such ownership in what we were doing. And then of course, them guys are going away and telling and advertising the fact that you have got a say in it, you can do what you want to do and being part of it and actually have an ownership in it was what kept everything ticking along.
Pete Lewis:
And you’re still growing, you’re still growing your membership and fielding, as I understand, plenty of inquiries from other fishers who want to get on board as well. Why do you think that is?
Rodger Long:
Yeah, well, actually I just got a phone call before we went on air. We’ve actually got number 30 today. So that’s four or five since we finished fishing this year, members. I think it’s created a lot of conversation up and down the coast. And I think a lot of people really did sit back last season, having a look at how we’d go and whether we could produce and do what we were saying we were going to do. And although it’s a very young business, we did get over a fair few hurdles, especially with the COVID thing at the end. We got over a lot of hurdles and we’ve delivered on a couple of promises, like building the new factory up the coast and things like that.
Rodger Long:
So I think that’s instilled a fair bit of confidence in what the fishermen may have been thinking, so called fence sitters that just didn’t know whether they should or shouldn’t. And obviously the guys that were involved for this last season have been fantastic and they’ve been going out selling the story as much as they can. So I think it’s just something that I hope that has a snowball effect. And certainly after this year, you can see that the model works and that tells a story in itself. And I think that the fishermen, are starting to get the idea that being all together, the security in the numbers is a good thing.
Pete Lewis:
And I guess through this whole pandemic is that we’ve seen right across agriculture and indeed right across a lot of business, generally in Australia, the pandemic has really shown that there is safety in numbers and that’s really the motivating force behind co-operatives right around the country and clearly in your industry. How has 2020 and COVID-19 affected fishing and exports?
Rodger Long:
Yeah. Well, I’m glad it didn’t happen last year, that’s for sure. Our season runs from 1st of October through til the next May. So a lot of our fishers were actually a fairway through their quota when the COVID hit, but what a lot of people don’t understand and we didn’t see here so much unless you’re involved, was the Chinese market shut down overnight. So there was no warning or no anything. There was no gradual, I suppose, onset of it. It was just phone call overnight. That’s it. We don’t want any more fish, whatever you’ve got in your tanks, you’re stuck with. So that was a challenge in itself. We had to sell our fish locally, which is a big volume of fish for the local market to soak up. So that was a challenge in itself. And then there was no markets at all, really after that.
Rodger Long:
And as Australia become infected with COVID too, that took that market away. So, but getting into the year a bit further, we got to about middle of April and we did get a little bit of a lifeline from China and we managed to get a few fishermen back fishing to finish off their quotas. But it was a little bit less a price. It wasn’t too bad, but it was a little bit lesser price, but then we’re still left with the uncertainty of what’s going on this year. We’ve been chasing up flights and logistics of how, if we can sell crays into China, how we go about it.
Rodger Long:
As you know, Melbourne is suffering at the moment and Sydney’s just teetering along. So they’re our major markets in Australia and if they’re not there and we’re struggling, well, the flights are less than half going into China. It really restricts on what days we can export and when. So whether the Chinese decide to manipulate the price or do whatever with that, we don’t know, but it’s a bit of an unforeseen, but we’re certainly working hard to make sure that we get the best return for our fishermen. And that’s all we can do as a co-op. And we’ve been having meetings a lot and we keep on putting that across to our fishermen. This is what it could look like. We’re going to try our best to get the best return we can for you. And they believe in that. They trust in that. So that’s all we can do.
Pete Lewis:
And look, having spoken to the Geraldton fishers early in the series. We know that they’ve made particular representations to state and federal politicians to really keep those international transport links and logistics open for this very reason, because you’ve got an extraordinarily valuable commodity and extraordinarily perishable one when it’s live and the reliability of those connections to market are going to be really fundamental to the way you can ride this through.
Rodger Long:
Oh, yes, for sure. And there’s obviously a lot of phone calls going around and between us and the GFC guys and other processors here. We’re all trying to just shore up as good a deal as we can get and it’ll be a bit of a suck it and see thing, I think. It’s just something we’re going to have to wing our way through a bit. It’s going to be a lot of stop-start fishing, because we just won’t be able to get the volumes out the door. So the season has actually been extended for two weeks. We start two weeks earlier this year. And that main reason is to help us spread our catch out over a longer period. So hopefully that’ll give us a chance to be able to take the crays from the fishermen and get them over to our markets all around the world.
Pete Lewis:
Rodger, is it fair to say that many co-ops succeed or fail because of the sweat equity that’s been involved in it. What social value in the southeast of South Australia is created through your co-operative and how do you think it impacts on those small communities?
Rodger Long:
Sweat equity, yeah, it’s been huge. That our members have done an amazing job with volunteering their time and effort. And the co-op just wouldn’t have succeeded without it. There’s no doubt about that. As far as the social and the economic value to the immediate area, it’s because the investment stays in the local areas and the local communities. And because of that, that you see the expenditure go here and not go away and not go out of our state, not go out of our country. So we think that benefits the communities also with what we’re doing, we’re employing another 30 people in the area. So that that’s a good thing for our community.
Rodger Long:
And apart from that, the social benefits, it’s certainly bringing fishermen together. It’s not a footy club, but it’s getting to that stage where everybody enjoys each other’s company and listen to the good and the bad things and nutting it all out together. And I suppose it’s just a case of, we try to run a bit of a happy family type situation involving all parts of the family too, not just the fishermen.
Pete Lewis:
Now you are obviously sold on this concept, sold on this idea and sold on this structure. What do you tell other fishers, other farmers about what is intrinsically significant, important and sustainable about the co-operative approach, as opposed to any other type of business structure and company structure?
Rodger Long:
It’s just that safety in numbers, I think. And the fact that, if you’ve got a problem, you can deal with it and you can have your say in it, in the way you go about dealing with it. It’s something that I think you find more solutions to the job, because it’s not you by yourself and you’re not receiving the right information. Everything’s really open and transparent. So it’s just something that you don’t wake up and, “Oh, that’s happened.” You’re well aware of what’s going on around you and if there’s any trouble or any good things, you know what’s going on and being part of that, it’s got to be a great thing for any sort of confidence in an industry.
Pete Lewis:
Now, two years in, have there been any obvious stumbling blocks or potential problems from this kind of structure though?
Rodger Long:
Not really, no, not really problems as such. It’s just mainly raising your capital and finding a way of building infrastructure and things like that, which is a hard part and people don’t want to look at you too much. We were lucky enough to get a small money firm that would look after us, and they’ve done a fantastic job, but they’ve obviously got fairly hard terms on which we’re doing, but at the moment, we’re looking at, after two years being established, we’re finally getting some traction with bigger banks and things like that, which we’re looking to refinance through, which would give us a huge lift in what we’re doing as well.
Pete Lewis:
Has it been a matter of explaining to them the fishing literacy and indeed the co-operative literacy that those financial institutions may not have necessarily had or thought about terribly much?
Rodger Long:
Everywhere we went is, “Oh, we’ve never dealt with a co-op.” So as much as you can explain it and really say, “Well have a look at what the Geraldton boys do.” The financial institutions really found it hard to, I suppose, grasp hold of what we were doing. But now that they’ve seen that we’re away and some of the figures we turned over, all of a sudden they become interested. It’s rather annoying that you can’t get that leg in at the start. We were very fortunate to be helped out by people to get us going and not having that backup or being able to reach any finance of really any sort was a real struggling point in the whole thing.
Pete Lewis:
Well, if you’ve had some light bulb moments with the financial sector, that’s probably a lesson or two that you could share with other co-ops because they’re all hunting and gathering for the same kind of relationship and same kind of understanding. Now, as you indicated a little earlier, you are on the cusp of another significant step in the life of this relatively young co-operative. You’re days away from completing a large factory at Beachport here in South Australia, which will see the co-op employ, as you said, around 30 people across its two holding facilities. That’s a really significant step. How did it come about?
Rodger Long:
Yeah, well, after our first year was run with one factory with trucks running to the northern most part of the coast. Our first factory was situated probably at the most southern port. And just listening to the fishermen and the way we can improve our quality and logistics, as far as running trucks that we thought it’d be a great idea to put a factory up at Beachport. It also tells a story and shows that the community did that. We want to be part of that and not take factories away from the little communities, actually put factories there.
Rodger Long:
Like I said, the quality side of things help make the decision and the trucking instead of five hours in a truck back down to the southern ports, it’s only going to be minimal. The truck can do short journeys into that factory. As far as how it come about, we’ve got a very smart secretary, I think you’re talking to later on. He chased up a PIRSA Regional Growth Fund grant, and we were lucky enough after our second year to be qualified for it. And we were lucky enough to receive it as well. So that was a huge boost for us to be able to go up north and start to build that facility like you said, which is very close to being finished. And it’s very exciting, very exciting.
Pete Lewis:
That’s fantastic. Yes. We will be speaking to Justin Phillips from the Limestone Co-operative in our round table discussion, a little later this evening, so stay tuned for that. Now, what other ways are you looking to innovate, Rodger? There’s obviously the more you undertake, the more you believe you need to undertake. What’s the next challenge, the next bright idea that you’re working towards?
Rodger Long:
Well, I suppose it’ll depend a fair bit on the membership and what we need to do as far as growing facilities, but there’s always plenty of room for improving tanks and for quality issues and ways to run your factories more efficiently and trucks and things like that. So it’ll be mainly improvement, teaching staff, schooling staff up, and we’ve got to buy a few more trucks now. So just investment mainly to make the process easier.
Pete Lewis:
And as you indicated, as much of that money that you generate and need to spend on your business, you want to try and do that as much as possible, where you live and among your own people.
Rodger Long:
Yeah. So, and when we’re forever trying to look after our local people, and we’ve made a specific plan for that. We want to help out in any way we can and spend our money here. So if we can’t get it locally, unfortunately you can’t get everything locally. But if we can’t, we have to outsource it somewhere else, but we’ve certainly formed good partnerships with a lot of the local businesses around that are helping us out as well.
Pete Lewis:
Speaking of the motivations, if you haven’t answered our poll yet, please do check up on it. The question tonight we’re asking and posing is what is the biggest motivator for starting a farming cooperative? You’ve heard how the fishermen of the Limestone Coast had a particular set of challenges and needs within their own industry. And they’ve stepped up with, we’d have to say some remarkable cooperation from like-minded souls in Western Australia, with the Geraldton Fishermen’s Co-op and two years in, things are ticking over pretty well, not withstanding some significant challenges thrown out by COVID-19 and the reliance on the Chinese export market. So a fascinating discussion with Roger Long from the Limestone Coast Fishermen’s Co-op.
Pete Lewis:
Rodger, I guess probably as we swing into the home stretch, from your point of view, setting it up, all the work that was required, convincing your colleagues in the industry to get involved, growing the thing, what’s the one big lesson that you’ve learned along the way that you would reckon that it would help inform our audience, which might be looking at doing much the same thing that you did a couple of years back? What’s the biggest lesson you’ve learned in that time, do you think?
Rodger Long:
For me, I suppose it was hard, but it works so, and as you go along and you build the co-op itself and you build relationships with the people that are coming in and joining the co-op and all that, that gives you a lot of satisfaction and teammanship of what goes on. But I suppose if anybody was going to start one and hopefully there will be, yeah, just got to stick at it. It seems a long way, but certainly it works. We’ve proved our model works and I’m sure there’s a co-op model that can work for other people too. And we’re confident that we’ve got the right model working. And I think, yeah, it’s just stick at it. Keep punching, I suppose you’d call it.
Pete Lewis:
And in that sense, I guess it’s a lot like footie, Rodger. It’s important to be part of the team and you can’t always kick the goals you want when you want, but if you stick together as a team and work through them, generally speaking things come good. Are you still tied up in footy in any significant way at all? Are you coaching? Or are you-
Rodger Long:
I did coach for a while, but that was a fair while ago. I’d like to be that age again. No, I’m just on a grounds committee now. There’s a heap of us old ex footballers that meet at the football ground on a Friday and get the oval ready and the club rooms ready for a game on Saturday and enjoy a couple of beers after. But no the football’s been certainly great. I miss it. I wish I was young enough to still play it. But like you said, though, the team thing does work and it’s certainly working for our co-op. There’s no doubt about that.
Pete Lewis:
Look, thank you very much again, Rodger, that was fantastic for your insights into the journey so far for the Limestone Coast fishers. It’s been fascinating how you’ve reached out and had such a great cooperative relationship with your fellow fishers from WA, from Geraldton there. So it’s been a really interesting chat and we really appreciate it.
Pete Lewis:
Now, look, we want you to stay tuned, because our next round table discussion will be coming up shortly. And on this one, we’re going to be looking at how small producers can gain power by working together. It’s pretty much been self evident from our discussion over the last hour or so, hasn’t it, with Rodger Long?
Pete Lewis:
But in the round table discussion, we’ll be speaking to one of Rodger’s sidekicks, Justin Phillips from the Limestone Coast Fishermen’s Co-op. We’ll be talking to Danielle Adams from the Clarence River Fishermen’s Co-op on the east coast in New South Wales. Then we’ll be talking to Greg Wall AM who’s a co-op leader and an expert. And of course helping us drive the whole conversation along, as usual will be Melina Morrison the CEO of the Business Council of Co-operatives and Mutuals. That’s coming up next at 07:45.
Pete Lewis:
Now we want you to be aware of where we are in the series. We’re about halfway through, as it turns out, and we want you to check out all those episodes. They are available online for you. Go to conversations.coopfarming.coop to find out our full lineup of episodes. And there’s some great stuff and great learnings there. And remember the series is available now and on demand.
Pete Lewis:
Now, if tonight really got you excited and got you inspired to look at how a co-op could work for your business or maybe you were already exploring the co-operative models for your community and want some assistance, just go to the co-operative farming website for a bunch of different ways that the Business Council of Co-operatives and Mutuals can give you a hand. There are educational bursaries, for example, available to support farmers, fishers and foresters to access the relevant cooperative education that they’ll need. There’s even a hotline, if you want to speak to somebody to find out what you need to start a co-op. So it’s all there, practically at the push of a button.
Pete Lewis:
But for the time being, for now, until the round table, thanks very much for joining us. Hope you enjoyed it as much as I have. See you next time.
